“Because that’s how his mind works…”

Hanada: For this exhibition, we selected several pieces, and we’d like to ask you about them. This one feels very much like your style—fresh and refined. It looks simple, but achieving this kind of understated refinement is not easy.

Mansaku Nakao : Exactly. It’s either Issey Miyake or me.

Noriko Nakao (wife) : He says things like that himself. (laughs)

Mansaku Nakao : I want to surprise people.

Hanada: You always say that before your exhibitions—“I want visitors to be surprised when they walk into the venue.”

Noriko Nakao : He says it every time.

Mansaku Nakao : Surprise matters. That’s why people go to films or theater—because they are, in some way, surprised.

Hanada: If everything is predictable, it may not draw people in as much.

Mansaku Nakao : If everything is predictable, it’s boring.

Hanada: And you’ve continued doing this for decades.

Mansaku Nakao : It’s the same as the “hook” in rakugo or manzai.

Noriko Nakao : As expected of someone from Osaka…

Mansaku Nakao : It has nothing to do with being from Osaka. Anyone, anywhere, wants to capture people’s attention.

Hanada: You would have done the same kind of thing in any profession, wouldn’t you?

Noriko Nakao : That’s just how his thinking is wired.

Mansaku Nakao : …Yes. That’s what makes it enjoyable.

Hanada: Pink is a color not often seen in ceramics.

Mansaku Nakao : It does exist, but not many people use such a clean, bright pink. Also, I don’t apply glaze over the pink areas.

Hanada: If you applied glaze on top, it would become glossy and flat, and the brushwork wouldn’t come through like this.

Noriko Nakao : Normally, people are taught to avoid showing brushstrokes… (laughs)

Hanada: In your case, even the overglaze painting has a sense of movement. Usually it’s applied more like layering color on top.

Noriko Nakao : That’s what we’re normally taught. (laughs) His work feels like it’s half-drawn rather than fully painted. Even in the pine motif pieces, you can see areas of white left exposed—normally that would be considered incorrect.

Hanada: Had he entered ceramics through a more conventional training path, things might have turned out differently.

Mansaku Nakao : Maybe so.

Everyone Has Their Own Way

Hanada: It has now been about four or five years since the three of you—Mansaku, Noriko (wife), and Shohei (son)—began working together.

Mansaku Nakao : Yes.

Hanada: Each of you is quite different. Not only in work, but even in how much you speak (Shohei was working at the time, so he barely joined the conversation).

Shohei Nakao : (laughs)

Mansaku Nakao : Collaboration always involves trial and error, but when customers are pleased with what we make, it gives us confidence and motivation. In the end, you never know what will become a hit.

Hanada: Often the piece you think is your “masterpiece”…

Mansaku Nakao : No one pays attention to it. (laughs)

The Joy of Creation

Hanada: You have built a very distinctive personal style. When working collaboratively like this, new ideas naturally emerge. How does it feel to see those ideas develop together?

Mansaku Nakao : It expands outward, and that’s interesting. I want the two of them to keep doing whatever they like, freely.

Hanada: That’s quite an open stance. Even though you already have an established style, you don’t try to preserve it strictly—you actually encourage expansion.

Noriko Nakao : He has always been the type to break down even his own established work. (laughs) The standard pieces remain, but he rarely goes back to older work.

Mansaku Nakao : I suppose I simply enjoy creating.

Noriko Nakao : It’s not that he dislikes older work, but the desire to make something new is always stronger.

Mansaku Nakao : I’m 73 now. Most ceramic artists of my generation have already faded away. Constantly creating something new feels about right.

Hanada: That sounds a bit harsh, even if you don’t mean it that way. (laughs)

Mansaku Nakao : No, it’s true. The same applies to office workers or anyone else—at a certain age, many people fade out.

Hanada: In ceramics, people often try to gradually scale down work toward retirement. Reducing output little by little… though perhaps that’s not your approach.

Mansaku Nakao : No, it’s more like running a full marathon while out of breath. (laughs) But whatever the job, people are all working hard—and that’s what matters.

“Who is ‘everyone’?”

Noriko Nakao : People now take photos of their own cooking on phones, so we see home meals much more often. It’s useful and also enjoyable for us as makers.

Hanada: Because many photos are taken from directly above, irregularly shaped pieces are more noticeable.

Noriko Nakao : Flower-rimmed designs have really increased. “Everyone likes flower rims,” people say.

Mansaku Nakao : Who exactly is “everyone”?

Hanada: (laughs)

Noriko Nakao : People in Japan.

Mansaku Nakao : I have flower-rimmed pieces too.

Noriko Nakao : Not those kinds. I mean rims shaped like flowers. Some have carved ridges, different variations… and people even paint on them. Like the ones Kotaro Matsuura makes—very charming.

Mansaku Nakao : Matsuura came by recently as well. We talked quite a bit.

Hanada: It’s interesting that someone over 30 years younger and you can meet on equal footing as makers.

Interaction with Younger Artists

Mansaku Nakao : From your perspective at Hanada, younger makers must also be interesting, right?
I’m always thinking I’d like to meet more interesting young people too. Competition among makers helps talent grow. I like young people who are a bit cheeky.

Hanada: You were apparently quite intense when you were younger…

Mansaku Nakao : You need to be a bit cheeky when you’re young. Eventually everyone becomes more rounded with age. But nowadays people try to appear gentle from the start, especially to be liked.

Hanada: Many younger people tend to keep things more internal now.

Mansaku Nakao : I see. Still, I think a bit of rebelliousness is good. I find that kind of person hard to dislike.

Hanada: That sounds like encouragement from you.

Playing Card Pattern

Hanada: What do you think of this soup bowl?

Mansaku Nakao : I changed the handles to a horizontal position so the pieces would stack better.

Hanada: The original version had vertical handles—I liked that too. This one is shaped by Shohei, and Noriko did the painting, right?

Noriko Nakao : I’ve always liked playing card motifs, and I wanted to use them someday as a design. I had also seen similar motifs in Ko-Kutani ware, with clovers and hearts combined.

Mansaku Nakao : I think this one will be a hit. That’s my intuition.

Hanada: Suddenly… intuition… (laughs)

Noriko Nakao : Strange intuition. (laughs)

Collection

Mansaku Nakao : I have a large collection of animation original drawings.

Noriko Nakao : He suddenly changes the topic… (laughs)

Mansaku Nakao : I was thinking of displaying a few of them on the wall during the exhibition.

Hanada: That’s interesting.

Mansaku Nakao : Of course, they would be not for sale.

Hanada: Understood. But they’re rare, so people might ask to buy them…

Mansaku Nakao : Not for sale.

Hanada: (laughs)

Noriko Nakao : Honestly, I’d prefer if he sold them. (laughs) We already have too many.

Hanada: That many?

Shohei Nakao : It’s quite something.

Mansaku Nakao : I’ll go bring some. (goes to another room)

Hanada: It’s nice for people to see a side of him beyond ceramics.

Noriko Nakao : Is that really okay? Visitors might wonder what they’re looking at…

Hanada: I think it will be fine.

Nostalgia

Mansaku Nakao : (returns) Here they are. Something like this.

Hanada: There are so many. We won’t have space left for the ceramics exhibition. (laughs)

Mansaku Nakao : This is Osamu Tezuka.

Hanada: Original drawings?

Mansaku Nakao : Yes.

Hanada: Oh, Nils. That’s nostalgic.

Mansaku Nakao : This is original artwork for a confectionery package.
And this is Ultraman…

Hanada: Maybe we should narrow it down to two or three pieces.

Mansaku Nakao : Five or six would be fine too.

Hanada: Well… could we avoid anything too violent?

Mansaku Nakao : It’s not violent. Everyone knows Ultra-man.

Hanada: Yes, but here Ultra-man is having his arm bitten by a monster…

Mansaku Nakao : That’s the interesting part.

Noriko Nakao : Then let’s have you choose, and Mr. Matsui can select from there. (laughs)

Mansaku Nakao : Fine.

Hanada: Atom would be nice.

Mansaku Nakao : No Atom.

Hanada: Oh? I thought I saw it earlier.

Mansaku Nakao : Ah, that one. Jet Marte. It’s “willow under the loach (a follow-up flop).” The ears are slightly different.

Hanada: It’s “loach under the willow”…(laughs)

Noriko Nakao : I think you’ve got that the other way around. (laughs)

Mansaku Nakao : Well, it didn’t really become a hit. A classic “willow under the loach.” situation.

Hanada: (laughs)

Mansaku Nakao : Jet Marte is extremely rare. It’s probably valuable.

Hanada: You mean you’d sell it?

Mansaku Nakao : No, not for sale.

Noriko Nakao : I don’t even know when he collected all of this. At this point, I can’t tell whether ceramics or this is the main collection…

The Enjoyment of “Yoroke” Lines

Hanada: Next is this “yoroke” pattern. Made by Shohei.

Shohei Nakao : I tried several sample variations and chose this one. Some with thin lines, some thicker… I felt this best captured the charm of the wavering lines(yoroke).

Hanada: The colored dots are by Mansaku, right? Very typical of him in palette.

Mansaku Nakao : I plan to expand this pattern further.

Thirty Years…

Hanada: Noriko, after 30 years observing Mansaku closely, have you noticed changes?

Noriko Nakao : What he makes keeps changing, but his fundamental stance hasn’t changed. I’ve never seen him reluctantly working.

Mansaku Nakao : Always high energy.

Noriko Nakao : He never takes time off.

Mansaku Nakao : I don’t really have hobbies outside work…

Hanada: That sounds like an ideal life. Though perhaps difficult for those around you.

Noriko Nakao : He never forces us to live the same way, but by simply seeing him like that, we ended up following along. (laughs)

Hanada: You two have a nice dynamic.

Noriko Nakao : I like mountain walking. That’s my refreshment.

Mansaku Nakao : Even watching a strong match like today’s football gives me energy again. (It was the day after Japan’s World Cup knockout match.)

Noriko Nakao : After the match, he went straight back to working.

These Are the Most Usable Pieces

Hanada: Next is this faceted small bowl.

Mansaku Nakao : It’s a new piece, but these simple ones often turn out to be the most practical.

Hanada: Even faceting shows character.

Mansaku Nakao : Not really. They’re all the same.

Shohei Nakao : They are different.

Hanada: (laughs) And this “LOVE” plate.

Mansaku Nakao : Each one has a different color combination. I enjoy thinking about composition and palette. I start with a rough idea, and the finer details are decided on the spot. Sometimes I let overglaze flow under the underglaze layer.

Hanada: Everything feels very well resolved. We’re seeing many new works, and the exhibition should be exciting.

Mansaku Nakao : As long as visitors are happy, that’s enough. And I hope everyone stays healthy.

Hanada: Yes. Thank you very much.

≪ END ≫