From Kutani Seiyo to His Own White.

Hanada: 　What led you to pursue ceramics, and specifically making tableware?

Naoto Okada : Ever since I was old enough to remember, I’ve been interested in making things of all kinds.　My father worked in construction, and my mother was an expert with a sewing machine.　I suppose that kind of home environment encouraged me as well.　I wanted to go to art school, so throughout my teens I spent most of my time drawing, mainly practicing sketching for entrance exams.

Hanada: What kind of paintings did you like?

Naoto Okada : I liked Redon. He painted skies in pastel tones, using pale pinks and light blues. His paintings were beautiful, yet at times he would create extremely grotesque works as well. I was drawn to that contrast too, though personally I preferred the softer side of his work.
That’s why I initially studied illustration, but somehow it never quite felt right. Then I turned my attention to ceramics, and I felt a sense of history and tradition there. And even on an individual level, it was something where technique and experience could steadily accumulate.

Hanada: Not long after that, you met Mr. Hata of Kutani Seiyo (founder of Kutani Seiyo).

Naoto Okada : Back then, I was pretty arrogant. I told him, “If I can’t start working on the wheel right away, I’m not interested.” And Mr. Hata just said, “Sure, go ahead.”
Honestly, he’s probably the only person who would have accepted me like that. Afterward, he took me to a sushi restaurant… and the firefly squid I had there was unbelievably good… That became part of the deciding factor too (laughs). Fish from the Sea of Japan really is different.
I remember being struck by the thought that there was no way I could compete, through making tableware, with people who ate food this delicious as a matter of course.

Hanada: And then you spent about ten years at Kutani Seiyo.

Naoto Okada : I truly learned an enormous amount there. Above all, I’m glad I was given work where I had to steadily produce large quantities. In the process of making so many pieces, I tried to erase as much self-expression as possible—it’s difficult to explain—but from that emerged what I’d call the “scent” of production work. I’m genuinely grateful that I was able to understand that.

Hanada: The “scent” of production work… do you mean something like the natural ease that develops the more you make? It feels as though the atmosphere of the workshop itself becomes part of it too.

Naoto Okada : Yes, exactly. The “scent” of production work is something you notice after making the same thing over and over—when you look closely, it begins to feel as though it carries a certain presence. Even when making something plain, that quality is still there. I really love that sensation.

Hanada: At Seiyo, there also wasn’t an excessive obsession with materials.

Naoto Okada : That’s true. And I don’t think bringing out atmosphere through materials themselves was what Mr. Hata aimed for. I think he believed that should come from the maker’s work, not the materials.
So things like mixing iron powder into the clay, changing the firing method, or giving the surface a slightly matte finish… I think Mr. Hata would probably dislike that sort of thing (laughs).
And honestly, he has a point. Once makers start embedding their own intentions into the materials, there’s no end to it. The aspect of the piece as a tool quietly disappears.
If you’re someone working on everyday tableware, the question becomes whether you should really go in that direction. Those elements are things you need to strip away.
When viewed that way, the work done at Kutani Seiyo is extremely interesting. Everything there—from the choice of materials to the methods used—is incredibly simple.
At the time, there were aspects of it that felt somewhat bland to me, but by placing myself in that environment, I feel I came to understand both the world without scent and the world with scent. Now, I feel as though I’m somewhere right in between the two.

Hanada: With tableware, there’s the place where it’s made, the place where it’s chosen, and the place where it’s used. Both you and Mr. Hata place importance on the place where it’s used.
When creating tableware, I imagine the process begins with a vision—this lifestyle, this home, this dining table, this kind of food… and then thinking, “This kind of piece would create a nice atmosphere here,” while selecting from your own skills and knowledge as you work.
And another thing I notice when looking at your work is that you don’t seem overly attached to your past work. You keep moving forward.

Naoto Okada : I don’t really look back at the past very much. That’s thanks to Seiyo. I can only speak from my own experience there, but the people at Seiyo had enough technical skill that they didn’t need to cling to technique itself. They could discard things freely and create something new whenever they wanted.
I don’t think I’m quite at that level, but I became accustomed to that attitude. I was allowed to do an incredible amount of production work there. At the time, it didn’t fully resonate with me, but after becoming independent, I strongly felt the benefits of that experience.

The Scent of the Maker

Hanada: Since becoming independent, your work has largely been based on European influences, hasn’t it? What is it about Delftware in particular that appeals to you?

Naoto Okada : Of course I love Delftware itself, but I’m also drawn to the background behind it. During the Delft period, Europe was first influenced by Chinese ceramics, and apparently it marked the very first stage in Europeans searching for their own tableware.
So in that sense, it feels close in spirit to the Japanese approach to making tableware. It exists right at the threshold before becoming a full-fledged industrial product. And in terms of function, modern food culture has become increasingly Westernized, so it’s also a style that pairs easily with contemporary cuisine.
That said, I personally don’t think too much in terms of “Japanese” or “Western.” I like both. If something works well, I like it regardless.

Hanada: You’ve also recreated pieces inspired not only by European works, but by old Imari incense burners and Seto pouring vessels as well.　You really like old things, don’t you? Not just ceramics either—looking around your studio, you’ve collected all kinds of objects.

Naoto Okada : I’ve been like that since I was little. I’ve always liked rusted things, and I used to pick them up all the time. And stones too. I love stones like the ones here, and I still go to the beach to collect them. Stones are beautiful even though they haven’t been shaped by human hands. Even with things made by people, I’m drawn to objects where the “scent” of the maker has disappeared.
Maybe I have a stronger-than-average resistance to anything that feels overly self-conscious or artist-driven. After all, my own work involves artificially adding a certain “scent” to clay, so perhaps collecting stones is also a way of erasing that scent.

Hanada: Does that serve as a kind of support for your work?

Naoto Okada : I think it helps me look at my work more purely. Ishikawa Prefecture has a lot of beautiful stones, you know.

Creating with a Flat State of Mind

Hanada: Is there anything you consider especially important in your work?

Naoto Okada : Not becoming attached to things. And keeping both my mind and body in a flat state.

Hanada: What do you mean by “flat”?

Naoto Okada : When you become ill, both your mind and body become unbalanced, don’t they? So I make an effort, even forcefully at times, to return myself to a flat state. Only then can I properly engage in making things. While living in that balanced state—experiencing hardship, enjoyment, sadness, and everything else— I simply want to create from within that condition.

Hanada: It’s different from being neutral or emotionless. More like a balancing toy that sways in different directions but never loses its center point.

Naoto Okada : If you live an extreme lifestyle, then what you make will probably become extreme as well. I think things created while living in a flat, balanced way are naturally best suited for everyday use.

Hanada: Lately, I feel your work has become softer.

Naoto Okada : I think that, especially when I first became independent, I was probably quite unbalanced. At the beginning, I felt I had to work desperately hard, so unconsciously I was trying to sharpen things, to emphasize edges.

Hanada: At times like that, there’s also the reality that if you don’t sharpen those edges, people won’t notice your work.

Naoto Okada : Looking back on that period, as you says, I liked things with a certain sharp tension. Now, I try not to force too much onto the tableware itself.

Hanada: Do you have any thoughts about the future?

Naoto Okada :　You can’t change your future through sheer force alone, so I’ll continue giving one hundred percent to what’s right in front of me. I want to keep improving the quality of what I’m making now.

Hanada: What does “quality” mean to you?

Naoto Okada : I think it’s about creating something and seeing how many people can genuinely accept it and use it with satisfaction. That’s the kind of world this is.
And for that reason, I want to raise the level of completion in each piece—its value as a functional object. For example, the overall body balance of a piece when you hold it in your hands. That’s something you sense in the work of skilled potters from the past as well. A certain flatness in the wheel work.

Hanada: That feeling where it’s not simply light, nor heavily weighted at the bottom, but somehow grounded and stable.

Naoto Okada : Exactly. That feeling between the wheel and the material itself. Japanese people use things while holding them in their hands, so how a piece feels to hold and its body balance are important.
It’s a comprehensive balance involving how much clay is trimmed after throwing, how much thickness is left at the rim, and how much strength is necessary for it to function properly as a tool. Even with something like a café au lait bowl, the atmosphere changes dramatically depending on that body balance.

Hanada: Even if the appearance doesn’t change, it’s about what exists inside the object itself.

Naoto Okada : I think that’s the essential part of it.

Hanada: When creating something new, what is your process like?

Naoto Okada : I think comprehensively about whether it looks beautiful when food is served in it, whether it’s easy to plate with, and how versatile it is. Then I create from there.

Hanada: Well then, we’re looking forward to your upcoming two-person exhibition with Akinobu Ito.

Naoto Okada :　Yes. I want to improve the quality of basic pieces, while also giving them a sense of playfulness. It’ll also be my first time exhibiting together with Mr. Ito, so I’m looking forward to it.

Hanada: I think your work pairs very well together. Thank you very much.

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