By My Grandfather’s Side

Hanada: What first drew you to making things?

Susumu Jo: My grandfather, who was born in the Meiji era, was a master carpenter who worked on temples and shrines. By the time I was old enough to remember, he had already stopped working, but our house was filled with things he had made. We lived together, and I remember making furniture with him.
He was a quiet man—he hardly spoke even while we worked together. We would line up carpentry tools side by side on the veranda. I remember asking him to take me on as his apprentice (laughs). When I did well, he would reward me with a hammer… But I was only allowed to help with simple tasks.
Normally, I wasn’t allowed to touch what my grandfather was making. There was an air about him that made it impossible, so I would just sit nearby and watch. He used to drive nails using the back of his hand. Isn’t that amazing? (laughs)

Hanada: Didn’t that hurt…?

Susumu Jo: He’d say, “Don’t try copying this,” but he looked pretty proud of it. Thump, thump.

Entering the World of Ceramics

Hanada: And eventually, you found your way into ceramics.

Susumu Jo: When I was thinking about my future, it was during the bubble economy, and graphic designers were very popular. I admired that path, but my high school art teacher said to me, “You know designers don’t actually make things, right? Didn’t you like making things?” When he put it that way, I realized he was right. So I enrolled in the ceramics department at Kyoto Seika University.

Hanada: Many notable people were in your generation.

Susumu Jo: Yes. Shin Murata, Taro Sugimoto…

Hanada: Did you interact much with one another?

Susumu Jo: We did. There were only about a hundred students across all four years. We went swimming together, fired kilns together, drank together… Honestly, I mostly remember us drinking all the time (laughs). At Seika, you could drink on campus. Though Shin Murata hardly ever came to school…

Hanada: (laughs)

Susumu Jo: Around my fourth year, I started thinking seriously about making ceramics my profession.

The Shock of India

Hanada: You traveled extensively around the world, didn’t you?

Susumu Jo: My first trip was to India when I was nineteen. I was influenced by Makoto Shiina’s book India de Washi mo Kangaeta.

Hanada: What was it like?

Susumu Jo: It was a shock. Everything was shocking… First of all, people were different. Their sense of distance was different. They were physically close, and they stepped right into other people’s emotional space.
Their values were different too—when you go shopping, nothing has a price tag. When you ask the price, they ask how much you want to pay. It’s like, “That’s for you to decide.”

Hanada: It was completely different from the world you knew.

Susumu Jo: I was stunned over and over again. Not just surprised—more like left speechless.

Hanada: What is Indian ceramics like?

Susumu Jo: Even the containers used to make yogurt are handmade, unglazed pieces, and they’re disposable. Unglazed clay seems to help the yogurt ferment better.

Hanada: I see—there’s a reason for it.

Susumu Jo: Basically, in India only unglazed ceramics exist. Unglazed mugs can be very appealing, with an atmosphere that even connects to Nanban ware.

Wandering On

Hanada: You continued traveling abroad after graduation.

Susumu Jo: Yes. I stayed with craft artists for a while, then traveled around ceramic regions all over Japan. Karatsu, Arita, Amakusa, Bizen, Tamba, Shigaraki, Echizen, Tokoname, Seto, Kasama, Mashiko, Kutani… I drove to every place I could think of. I was impressed by the variety, but at the same time I felt, “In the end, everyone is still firing clay.”
Eventually, I started running out of money. I wanted to see more of the world, so before I ran out completely, I decided I had to go—so domestic travel went on hold for the time being (laughs).

Hanada: Where did you go?

Susumu Jo: First was Jingdezhen. I took a ferry from Osaka to Shanghai, then boats and buses to reach Jingdezhen.
It really is extraordinary. The scale is enormous, and the sheer number of hands involved is overwhelming. For example, it’s normal for a single jar to take three months just for painting… It’s not an individual endeavor at all. You feel the accumulation of tradition and history. I felt there was no room for individual thinking in it.
After that, I went to Shaoxing. Shaoxing wine was cheaper than water. I grew very fond of it (laughs).
From there, starting with China, I traveled through Tibet, Nepal, India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Myanmar, Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore, Cambodia, Laos, Hong Kong, Macau, Korea, Iran, Turkey, Egypt, Jordan, Israel, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, Oman, Kenya, Ethiopia, Tanzania… about fifty countries in total.

Hanada: That’s incredible. Did you travel to all those places in one trip?

Susumu Jo: I split it into three trips. The longest lasted a year and a half. I even ran out of passport pages (laughs).
Basically, when I ran out of money, I’d come back to Japan, make ceramics, sell them at pottery markets, save up—and then go again.

Hanada: What drove you that far?

Susumu Jo: Because it was fun.

Hanada: Simple enough.

An Encounter with Dogon Mud-Dyeing

Hanada: As you traveled, you eventually encountered what would become the basis for your current iron-painted motifs.

Susumu Jo: The mud-dyed patterns of the Dogon people in Mali, West Africa. That culture has strong woodcraft traditions, but I was particularly drawn to their mud-dyeing and brought back many pieces. Textiles are light and easy to carry.

Hanada: Did you try many different patterns at first?

Susumu Jo: I did. The motifs in mud-dyeing are often figurative, but they felt too busy for tableware, so I arrived at this pattern.

Hanada: You must have made many adjustments before reaching this final form.

Susumu Jo: I focused on making the patterns clear, while keeping them from being too assertive. Along the way, I realized that filling the surface densely with patterns can actually feel calmer than leaving large blank spaces. I also adjusted the color balance many times before settling on the current version.

Becoming of a Place, and Being “Usable” There

Hanada: What do you value most in your work?

Susumu Jo: Being “usable” is fundamental. In other words, fitting into contemporary life. Homes, food, people—all differ, but at the core, I want to make things that suit the present time. I love classical ceramics, but I don’t want to simply imitate them.

Hanada: What kinds of older works do you like?

Susumu Jo: I’ve always liked Asian ceramics. Even within Asia, rather than China, I’m drawn to things like Vietnamese celadon… I like that sense of openness found in Southeast Asia. They’re not overly formal, and that friendliness also connects to ease of use.

Hanada: Tracing it back, China is still the source.

Susumu Jo: Yes. Even though China is the source, I like how it gradually becomes something Vietnamese. It must have changed to suit Vietnam.
I often think this while traveling—say you buy clothes abroad. When you bring them to another country, they look completely different. An orange garment I loved and thought looked great in Tibet can look oddly dull in Nepal. It becomes something else entirely.

Hanada: Would you call that the influence of climate and land?

Susumu Jo: I witnessed the power of place firsthand. Seeing Korean brush-marked or slip-coated pieces in Korea is completely different from seeing them in a Japanese museum. In Korea, they look perfectly natural.
You can feel, on a physical level, “These are things made by these people.” Of course I love the objects themselves, but what I really fall for is how they naturally belong to their place.

Hanada: An insight that only comes from visiting fifty countries. Nothing can rival the power of place.

One in Every Household

Hanada: What brings you joy in this work?

Susumu Jo: When I became independent, my goal was to make something “found in every household.” Something people all across Japan would own to use. I still haven’t let go of that dream.

Hanada: That’s a big dream. Do you think about anything in particular while you’re working?

Susumu Jo: I hope my work carries the atmosphere of what I love, while fitting into contemporary life. There are still many things I want to try. I want to continue with yakishime, and also this black-and-white work. The taste is close to Vietnam, and I’d like to keep moving in that direction.

A Flower Vase Full of Memories

Hanada: Is there a piece you feel particularly attached to?

Susumu Jo: During my first firing of yakishime, almost everything failed, and only one flower vase survived. A friend chose it at my very first solo exhibition. When I visit that friend even now, they’re still using it, and that makes me happy. Every time I see it, I remember that moment.

Various Square Plates

Hanada: Looking ahead to the group exhibition.

Susumu Jo: It’s my first time exhibiting at Hanada, so I’m looking forward to meeting new people.
Alongside my established pieces, I hope you’ll also see new works that may become future standards. I’ve made various square plates as well, so I hope you enjoy them.

Hanada: We’re really looking forward to it.

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