Two of Us Without “Musts”

Hanada: How did you come to focus on pottery and tableware within the world of making things?

Arata Anzai: I like eating, and I’ve always been interested in things related to clothing, food, and shelter.
I think it all started with playing with clay as a child.
I would look at old items stored in my mother’s family warehouse, and from around high school, I admired the lifestyle of acquaintances who fired wood kilns.
I also looked at books by Shoji Kamoda and Lucie Rie that we had at home…
All of these gradually converged, and pottery grew into a major area of interest for me.
There was a time I was interested in flashy contemporary art, but tableware, useful tools for daily life, seemed to fit me better.

Atsuko Anzai: Since I was little, I loved moving my hands and watching hands at work.
I would be captivated by the hands of a local pickling shop owner scooping pickles from a barrel, or a baker slipping loaves of bread neatly into just-right-sized bags.
The movements of hands are just beautiful.

Hanada: It’s been quite a while since you two started making things together. From the start, did you share a similar direction?

Arata Anzai: I felt that our tastes were similar.

Atsuko Anzai: There wasn’t anything that was completely different. At first, we were hesitant about working together, but once we started, it went surprisingly smoothly.

Arata Anzai: At the beginning, she seemed a bit more resistant, maybe.

Atsuko Anzai: Haha. But once we started, we shared meals together and naturally talked like, “It would be nice if we had this,” and things progressed.
Of course, we had many failures along the way.

Arata Anzai: There were quite a few, yes (laughs).

Hanada: You trained in Arita and Kyoto. Did you notice any differences?

Arata Anzai: The wheel rotation for trimming the foot is opposite, but now it’s a mix of various styles—basically a combination.

Atsuko Anzai: You’re flexible, Arata (laughs).

Arata Anzai: If you say that nicely, yes, flexible. In reality, rather careless (laughs).
We weren’t born into potter families, so we don’t feel many constraints. But the habits from where we first learned still linger.

Atsuko Anzai: For better or worse, we have no “musts” at all.
Our interests include music, ethnic clothing and textiles, architecture… many things inspire our work.

Hanada: Perhaps that’s the great thing about your work—it doesn’t feel constricted… it’s open.

Atsuko Anzai: I’m glad you say that. Sometimes the pieces might be a bit awkward, maybe because we create without caring about existing rules.

Arata Anzai: She is more sensitive about usability.

Atsuko Anzai: I do use them more often, after all.

Arata Anzai: I tend to pursue form more simply.

Atsuko Anzai: I don’t want pieces that are just practical. I try to find the right balance. If something isn’t usable, people won’t pick it up…

Arata Anzai: But if the form isn’t good, it probably won’t catch the eye either (laughs).

Atsuko Anzai: I also don’t like something that’s just stylish.

Hanada: Something that’s just stylish would seem uncool to you both?

Arata Anzai: Like ethnic clothing that isn’t streamlined. I like a bit of earthiness or imperfection, not just inorganic coolness.
Something that grows on you with use. Catchy things can get boring quickly.
It’s the same with music—I like things that deepen over time.
Also, things that are too cool don’t reflect our way of life. We don’t feel reality in something that’s perfect in every way.

Atsuko Anzai: We also don’t simply imitate old items.
The moment you try to, you get the “correct answer.”
And the more you chase that, the more it feels like you’re moving away from it.

Arata Anzai: We want to capture the essence.
Even if we see old items, the clay is different, the glaze is different, the kilns are different, and we even have electricity—so trying to make the same thing would be odd.

Hanada: You like Joseon dynasty pieces too. Do you try to incorporate the atmosphere you feel from them?

Atsuko Anzai: That kind of broad-minded feeling.

Arata Anzai: Or the feeling of an era, like Art Deco or Brancusi, or the mix of craft and product… I like many things—undisciplined (laughs).

Atsuko Anzai: I’m simply attracted to handwork as well.

Hanada: Do you talk about your work together?

Arata Anzai: Yes, we do.
Sometimes, after spending a long time making something, she’ll say, “The size is off,” and it’s instant critique…

Atsuko Anzai: Or the storage is bad…

Arata Anzai: Yes, but when you are told to limit it to this size, it can actually make it hard to create freely…

Atsuko Anzai: On the other hand, if the maker is told, “Please put this here,” it can feel constricting for the one serving too.

Hanada: (laughs) That must be tough. Do the “instant critiques” happen often?

Arata Anzai: Quite often.

Atsuko Anzai: (laughs) I feel like I’m being really mean. But these things come from very beautiful plaster molds. Arata loves polishing and carving, after all.

Arata Anzai: I’m aware that sometimes the mold itself becomes a work (laughs).

Atsuko Anzai: But a plaster mold is solid, whereas tableware is hollow.
No matter how beautifully the mold is made, that density doesn’t always translate to the ware. Sometimes the mold was just too perfect.

Arata Anzai: Like stone—when you polish it, the form becomes more defined. Strength emerges, in a sense. But sometimes you exhaust yourself on the mold (laughs).

Hanada: Has the precision of your new works improved?

Arata Anzai: Lately, I often make things based on her ideas, so I’m not making things blindly.
For example, when making a bowl: “It should hold soup and simmered dishes, but not too much that it looks clumsy.”

Hanada: Very specific.

Arata Anzai: Sometimes it’s abstract too. She’ll say, “Make it feel soft.”

Atsuko Anzai: We also spent a lot of time discussing the edge finish of this namasu plate.

Arata Anzai: While arranging the traditional design, it eventually ended up close to the original.
At first, it was more linear, but it was too flat, so we softened it again…

Atsuko Anzai: I had wanted him to make namasu plates for a long time and kept asking.

Hanada: Don’t you ever make them yourself?

Atsuko Anzai: Namasu plates need a mold, so I need him to make it first (mold making is Arata’s responsibility).

Hanada: So you have a lot of requests.

Arata Anzai: It’s easy for the one making requests (laughs) Also, even if ideas are contradictory, in the mind it doesn’t feel contradictory. It’s like adding “good” to “good” to make it even better. Trying to combine two incompatible “goods”…

Hanada: (laughs)

Arata Anzai: For the one actually doing it, following those instructions can make form-making challenging, revealing contradictions.
Then she’ll say, “That’s not quite right…”

Atsuko Anzai: Mold work has many steps and you can’t go back. Once you’ve gone this far, it’s tough.

Arata Anzai: When someone critiques a finished piece, I now pause and look at it again the next day. Distance helps you approach it with a fresh mindset.
If criticized right after completion, it’s too much to digest (laughs).

Atsuko Anzai: We used to argue a lot over that.

Arata Anzai: “Well, that’s weird,” you think.

Atsuko Anzai: I’d say, “I didn’t say that.”

Arata Anzai: Then I say, “Do you know how many hours that took?”

Atsuko Anzai: And I want to say, “It’s not about the time” (laughs).

Hanada: You get along well. Such dialogue requires trust.

Atsuko Anzai: Recently we’ve calmed down. Usually, the parts criticized are the ones that already bother you.

Arata Anzai: Yes, and internally we probably justify ourselves: “This is fine as it is.”

Hanada: Do you also give input from Arata to Atsuko?

Arata Anzai: Sometimes I give ideas for decoration, like the dandelion motif here.

Atsuko Anzai: The carved motif series references old Chinese items.
Not too Chinese-looking, and with a touch of Western atmosphere—it’s nice.

Hanada: Molds and carved pieces have different atmospheres.

Atsuko Anzai: Carved pieces have beautiful glaze pooling, so darker ash glazes suit them.

Arata Anzai: For relief, lighter or white glazes look better.

Hanada: So you exchange opinions with each other.

Arata Anzai: I think I get told more than I tell, right?

Atsuko Anzai: Really? (laughs)

Hanada: Your variations have increased. Initially butterfly-shaped bowls, rimmed plates, simple cups… It’s been almost ten years.
I still remember seeing the butterfly bowl for the first time. Impressive.
Then came twists and carved motifs.

Atsuko Anzai: I think our basic preferences haven’t changed, but we’ve gained more ways to express them.

Hanada: Are there works that left a strong impression on you?

Arata Anzai: The carved motifs, since we originally didn’t know how to make them and had to explore the process, hold special meaning.

Hanada: Did you have a reference for the butterflies?

Arata Anzai: It’s quite different, but inspired by Chinese items.

Atsuko Anzai: I wanted it to have a shape unique to casting.

Arata Anzai: At first, we experimented to explore the possibilities of shaping, but now after enough trials, it feels like we’re returning to orthodox forms.

Hanada: Are there projects you want to do in the future?

Atsuko Anzai: Some items are used continuously, but there are also things we stop using for a while.
Even if they aren’t used for some time, I want to make things that can be enjoyed for many years.
Also, seasonal tableware like New Year pieces.
It’s nice when people remember, “Oh, this comes out in summer,” or “This is for New Year.”

Hanada: Please talk about your upcoming October exhibition.

Arata Anzai: We’re experimenting with various things, so there will be a lot to see.

Atsuko Anzai: The regular items may have a slightly different atmosphere than usual, but I hope people enjoy that too.

Arata Anzai: Even with pieces we’ve made for a long time, we don’t set a “correct answer.”
It’s like football—shooting a ball straight to the goal is boring.
If you set the goal too clearly, the work feels constricted.
We want to keep a sense of freedom, including spontaneous ideas, valuing a relaxed atmosphere.

Hanada: That’s a big part of the charm of handmade work. Doing only “perfect” things would be boring.

Arata Anzai: It’s like adding “good” to “good” doesn’t necessarily make “very good.”

Atsuko Anzai: There are successes and failures, big and small, but that’s part of our approach.
We have many things we want to try, and hope to gradually bring them to form.

Hanada: Thank you very much. Looking forward to October.

≪ END ≫