What My Grandfather Left Behind

Hanada: How long has it been since you started carving?

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: About ten years.
I gradually began around 2007, and from about 2010 people were finally able to see my work.

Hanada: Recently, we’ve started seeing works with a different atmosphere as well.

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: Until now, geometric patterns were the main focus, but lately I’ve been trying figurative motifs too.

Hanada: It feels like your work has evolved.

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: Honestly, I’m not sure if it’s evolution or if I’m just wandering… (laughs).

Hanada: For now, let’s try to stay on a serious track (laughs).
So, was there anything in particular that inspired you to begin working with figurative motifs?

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: It was something my grandfather left behind.

Hanada: Your grandfather worked in metal engraving, didn’t he?

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: Yes, that’s right. He originally majored in metal engraving in art school, but after graduation he worked in wood carving and later became an instructor, teaching various crafts. About twenty years ago, I found some of his materials in the storage shed at my parents’ house. This kind of thing. Well… I just quietly took it with me.

Hanada: The year is 1940…? May I take a photo of the inside?

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: Hmm… I wonder what my grandfather would think… I should’ve asked while he was alive (laughs). Please photograph only the cover, if you don’t mind. Sorry.

Hanada: (Looking at the materials) This is pottery, right? Korean?

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: This was before the war. There were wonderful traditional ceramics in Korea at the time, and there was a movement to further develop them as an industry by building on those traditions. My grandfather went there as an instructor, and I think these materials are from that period. He probably showed these to the local artisans saying, “Why don’t you try making something like this?”

Hanada: Just as the people of that time made what they were shown, you’ve ended up making them too.

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: Something like that. I’m just looking at them on my own, though (laughs).

Hanada: Earlier we saw a piece with a fish motif, and you also incorporate fish motifs now. So these materials were the trigger.

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: Yes. But if I simply copied these drawings exactly as they are, it honestly wouldn’t be very interesting.

Hanada: …Well, I can’t exactly agree and say “Yes, it’s not interesting,” about something your grandfather drew (laughs).

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: Hahaha, true. So I give them a more contemporary—well, more “my own”—interpretation.

Hanada: Looking at these materials must have given you moments to imagine your grandfather’s work back then.

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: Yes, I found it fascinating.

Hanada: So you were enjoying it after all… (laughs).

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: There was more than this—among his belongings were bamboo craft pieces decorated with a heated metal stamp, and wood carvings as well. There were also pieces made by the artisans he had instructed back then. Every time something new turned up, I’d go “Whoa…”.

Hanada: What a surprise. Your grandfather did all sorts of things.

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: Although he specialized in metal engraving, as an instructor he apparently had to be proficient in everything.

Starting With Karakusa Patterns…

Hanada: You’d been looking at the materials for a long time, but you only recently began actually making pieces from them.

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: I always thought, “I’ll do it someday,” but the right timing never really came. It would’ve been quicker to just start the moment it crossed my mind, I guess.

Hanada: Having something new you want to try is a wonderful thing. You even showed me the karakusa work you’re doing right now. Do you have any other motifs in mind?

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: At the moment I’m fully occupied with organizing the karakusa patterns, but I do have ideas for the future. I still haven’t found the perfect way to execute them, so please look forward to what comes next.

Hanada: I imagine the overall feel of the finished pieces will also change. How does it feel to make them?

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: It was harder—far harder—than I expected.

Hanada: (laughs) So you mean much harder than you expected.

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: I always start from “Okay… so how should I approach this?” so the thinking time before beginning the work itself gets long. I think I’ll get used to it eventually. Also, the difference between how the design looks after the initial sketching and how it looks after carving is huge.
Unlike geometric patterns, you see the motif as an outline at first, but after carving, your eyes focus on the inside of the lines. So even if I think I’ve drawn something big, it ends up looking small. Like, “Huh? It’s tiny… what happened?” and suddenly there’s so much empty space (laughs). Everything looks really small.

Hanada: The fact that you’re explaining this so passionately means it must have ended up really small (laughs).

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: Probably because your eyes are drawn to the carved lines. Anyway—it’s small. And once it’s fired, it gets even smaller, until eventually it just disappears (laughs).

Never Truly Random

Hanada: How was drawing the lines?

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: It requires moving the blade even more smoothly than with geometric designs.

Hanada: With geometric continuous patterns, rhythm and tempo are important, and they’re essentially combinations and repetitions of fixed movements. But with figurative motifs, are there more random movements?

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: It’s challenging, but it’s not that random. In fact, the increase in curves and other patterns is what enabled me to start working with figurative designs. It’s more complex, but the fundamental principles of the work haven’t changed.

Creating Depth

Hanada: How was the first firing?

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: At first I thought, “Oh no…” (laughs). “It’s hopeless.” It looked flat. Even though I carved it specifically to create depth, it ended up looking flatter than if I had just drawn it with a pencil… (laughs).

Hanada: What happened?

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: I was excited, and I think I put too much of my own feelings into it.

Hanada: That’s wonderful— even after all these years, there’s work that gets you so excited you can’t control yourself.

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: Well… that’s one way to put it (laughs).

Hanada: Did you pay attention to carving “deep” and “shallow” as well?

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: As for depth, I can generally predict the gradation, so that wasn’t too much of a problem.
More than that, because the carving direction isn’t consistent, I had to think about how to proceed so I could carve the whole design smoothly, and how to make the carved marks look rhythmic.

Hanada: My impression is that the combination of exquisite technique with newfound freedom and playfulness has made your work even more appealing.

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: I’m happy to hear that.

Continuing This Work

Hanada: As a maker, what do you find interesting about carving? You’ve continued to do work that many other artists don’t attempt.

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: I’ve never really thought about whether I’m suited for it or whether I like it or not, but as I keep doing it, it feels more and more natural in my hands. At the same time, even after all these years, I feel like there are still discoveries waiting to be made. I’m always aware of that. Maybe that duality is part of it.

Hanada: Your tools are constantly evolving too. Earlier, you were making a new tool right in the middle of working.

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: I change the number of blades, their orientation, the spacing between them…. As I move forward, I find tools I don’t have yet. And when I need something at that moment, I make it.

The Proper Place for Fire

Hanada: Looking ahead to your next exhibition. It seems you’ll also have more color variations.

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: Yes—amber glaze and off-white. I think the cherry blossom pink might just make it in time.

Hanada: Anything you’d like to add? Perhaps something amusing…?

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: Lately my head is full of the fire (* there was a recent fire right next door to his place).

Hanada: So you’ll move forward undeterred by the fire.

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: Yes. Fire should stay where it belongs—inside the kiln.

Hanada: Quite right. Thank you very much.