Tokuhiro Masubuchi is exhibiting for the first time since last August.
Previously, we had a broad conversation with him.
This time, we focus on the work that symbolizes his current practice: carving.
What does “carving” mean to Mr. Masubuchi?

Starting to Carve

Hanada: What inspired you to start carving?

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: The trigger was the permanent collection at the Tokyo National Museum. There were rows of craftworks—woodwork, metalwork, exquisite maki-e, and so on. I thought, “Ah, I want to try that!”

Hanada: You can really take your time looking there, too.

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: On one hand, I felt “I can’t compete with this,” but on the other hand, I wanted to approach it.　So I thought, “Well, I’ll do as much as I can.” My grandfather’s influence might have been strong, too.

Hanada: What kind of influence was that?

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: When I was a student, he specialized in metalworking and engraving, and later in life he did woodwork. The pieces he made were scattered around our house.
From an early age, I felt the comfort of hammer marks and chisel traces.

Hanada: So you ended up pursuing those elements within the realm of ceramics.

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: Yes, ceramics was the only medium I could work with. And then I wondered again whether it was necessary to aim for that within ceramics.

Hanada: Why did you choose ceramics as your medium of expression?

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: Leaving chisel or cut marks on shaped clay and then applying glaze to shape it—I realized that this can only be done in ceramics. For example, cloisonné enamel is difficult to use as tableware, so it wouldn’t work as well.

Hanada: And that’s how you devoted yourself to carving.

Machines and Human Hands

Hanada: I think your carving is quite far from the typical “handmade” image people expect.　It doesn’t feel “handmade” in the usual sense.

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: I think so.

Hanada: So there must be a reason to do it by hand.　Is there a part that “a machine couldn’t do”?

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: I hope so (laughs).　The human hand “goes off” in a good way.　It doesn’t always follow the guideline exactly, and in the first place, the guideline wasn’t precisely measured.
But when the hand goes off like that, it covers up its own imperfections

Hanada: Covers up… in other words, it softly corrects itself.

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: I’ve spent 47 years living by making compromises and covering things up. My life has been one of constant improvisation… (laughs)

Hanada: Don’t start joking all of a sudden (laughs).

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: It’s important to maintain a certain touch while aligning where it counts. Machines may be better at aligning points exactly, but for turning multiple points into lines, humans still have the edge, I think.

Never Surpass the Original

Hanada: You put a lot of effort into this work.

Tokuhiro Masubuchi:I’ve considered using molds. But with molds, you can never surpass the original; what you produce is always just a copy of the mold.

Hanada: It would make the edges less sharp and the result more softened?

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: Going from the original to the master mold and then using that mold causes blurring. Then pressing clay into the mold adds another layer of blur.

Hanada: So it’s not that molds are bad, but for your expression, you have no choice but to work directly from the original.

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: Soft-focus mold works are nice, but for me, it’s about the original model.

Hanada: You’ve been working directly from the original model all along, then.

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: Even industrial prototypes are the coolest. Clay car models, for example, are carved directly by craftsmen. Then they derive press lines from that. Adjusting for technology and economics introduces compromises. What I do in carving is always like working with prototypes.

Marking Guidelines

Hanada: Let’s go step by step. First, you mark guidelines. You talk to yourself while doing this, right?

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: My wife sits nearby while I work. I think I’m talking to her, but she doesn’t respond.

Hanada: (laughs) So it’s not really a monologue. You say things like “What should I do?” or “Maybe I’ll do it this way.” From her position, she can’t see what you’re making, so it’s just a kind of imaginary consultation (laughs).

Hanada: When marking guidelines, do you already have a vision, or do you create it as you go?

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: I’d say “as I go.” Or rather, what I roughly decided at first changes as I work.

Hanada: When does it change?

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: “Actually, it doesn’t fit as I thought.”
“Then let’s do it this way, but that’s too much.” “Let’s simplify it and make it neat.” Every time it’s an experiment.

Hanada: That’s the fun of handmade work, the joy of not following a mechanical pattern.

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: If I tried to fit it in too rigidly, it would make my work difficult.

Hanada: What is important when marking guidelines?

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: (pauses) Don’t overmark… At first I was anxious and marked too many points, but then I couldn’t see anything. The line I carve with the tool is the real thing, yet I over-rehearsed with the guidelines and lost track of where I was (laughs). I got misled by my own draft.

Hanada: Like tiring yourself out with rehearsal before the real school play (laughs).

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: Ultimately, as long as the start and end points are set, everything in between will fall into place.

Line Carving

Hanada: Next, you carve the lines.

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: In painting terms, it’s called bone drawing, or line carving.

Hanada: When carving the lines, the freehand feel is nice. You mentioned being careful about depth—does that affect the next step, or is it for appearance?

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: It hardly affects the appearance. But if the blade is too shallow, burrs remain underneath. Too deep, and the cut may split and spread. So it must be just right.

Hanada: Anything else you pay attention to?

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: I try not to let my hand shake while working (laughs).

Hanada: (laughs) Earlier, it wasn’t shaking. Was that at the beginning?

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: I’m not good at holding brushes, so at first my hand shook.
Curves were hard. I was used to straight lines.

Hanada: You said that in Seto, you were only drawing Tokusa patterns. With those, you could draw them even lying down (laughs).

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: Yes. Because they’re straight lines.

Smooth Scooping Motion

Hanada: And the main…

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: Carving in depth.

Hanada: Does the expression change depending on how you carve?

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: Depth matters. Recently I carve as shallow as possible. Shallow, long, and smooth. If I carve deep immediately, it lacks depth. It becomes simply either “ON” and “OFF.”　I carve in a smooth scooping motion.

Do Not Carve Through!

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: And do not carve through (laughs).

Hanada: If you go through, it spills over the next area?

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: Going beyond the line carving would make it sloppy.
It’s important to keep it crisp.

Hanada: Your carving was very rhythmic.

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: Rhythm is important in any task.

Hanada: Do you not pause?

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: Pausing is forbidden. If you stop midway, you lose track (laughs).

Original vs Copy

Hanada: How do you come up with new patterns? By looking at other ceramics, paintings, photos…? Do you get hints that way?

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: Not consciously. If someone told me to copy something, my hands wouldn’t move.
But inspiration comes from everyday life and experiences.

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: The same goes for bands. (He also pursued music in a rock band.)

Hanada: About bands? (laughs)

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: I made originals because I couldn’t copy. Ceramics is the same.

Hanada: A band that only does originals is cool.

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: I just had no choice but to think for myself (laughs).

Hanada: Some people can only copy.

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: People who can copy are admirable. Seeing those who can mimic classics, I’m impressed.

Things I Don’t Want to Tell People

Hanada: Any goals moving forward?

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: Embarrassingly, I don’t want to tell people, but… it’s the Tokyo National Museum. I want to surpass the person who made the Korean celadon carved inkstone screen I saw in an exhibition.

Hanada: Set your goals high.

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: We see the finished work and can set goals. But for the makers, they had no model to follow. They built it from nothing. It’s amazing. But they’re human, too. Regarding carving alone, leaving aside materials and firing, I hope to keep the possibility of surpassing them.

Hanada: They weren’t using special tools at the time, right?

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: Today I can use better tools.

Always on My Mind

Hanada: Finally, what’s the charm of carving?

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: Can I be honest? (laughs)

Hanada: Sure.

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: I keep thinking, “Why did I start this?”

Hanada: You think that sometimes.

Tokuhiro Masubuchi: No, I think that all the time (laughs).

Hanada: Thank you for your fitting final words(laughs).

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